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	<title>Comments on: In the In Between</title>
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	<description>Creativity / Theology / Culture / Spirituality</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin L</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.velocityculture.com/?p=752#comment-122</guid>
		<description>isn&#039;t that part of genius.  Knowing the right question to ask? Your comment on church transformation resonates.  Is seems oxymoronic that if you want to change you need to start with changing the question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t that part of genius.  Knowing the right question to ask? Your comment on church transformation resonates.  Is seems oxymoronic that if you want to change you need to start with changing the question?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Martoia</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Martoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dries your growth is pretty incredible thanks for sharing it with us and for helping us keep this non dual focus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dries your growth is pretty incredible thanks for sharing it with us and for helping us keep this non dual focus</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Martoia</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Martoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.velocityculture.com/?p=752#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Dion what a great time with you.  And Bro thanks for the comments by Tutu, we need this voice we need this perspective we need this integration.  I am so glad we are becoming conversation partners and co journey mates.... I need you friend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dion what a great time with you.  And Bro thanks for the comments by Tutu, we need this voice we need this perspective we need this integration.  I am so glad we are becoming conversation partners and co journey mates&#8230;. I need you friend</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.velocityculture.com/?p=752#comment-118</guid>
		<description>thanks for that, i guess i just needed a reminder today, about why I do what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for that, i guess i just needed a reminder today, about why I do what I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Dries Cronje</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Dries Cronje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.velocityculture.com/?p=752#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Buddy...

That&#039;s exactly the shift that we need to take. It&#039;s at the heart of all our issues.

Once you belong, it helps you create a false identity. This false identity needs to be defended by being right, and therefore by attaching the lie of &#039;we are right, you are wrong&#039;. This all leads to inflated egos, fighting with other groups, and dualistic thinking.

If it was all about transformation, we&#039;d have none of these issues. There would be an open spirituality, non-dualistic thinking and the healing that comes from living out of your true identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buddy&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly the shift that we need to take. It&#8217;s at the heart of all our issues.</p>
<p>Once you belong, it helps you create a false identity. This false identity needs to be defended by being right, and therefore by attaching the lie of &#8216;we are right, you are wrong&#8217;. This all leads to inflated egos, fighting with other groups, and dualistic thinking.</p>
<p>If it was all about transformation, we&#8217;d have none of these issues. There would be an open spirituality, non-dualistic thinking and the healing that comes from living out of your true identity.</p>
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		<title>By: Dion Forster</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Dion Forster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Ron,

This is a challenging question indeed!  

I think that part of what has made the Church such a significant place of community is the reality of life&#039;s diversity.  Joy, sorrow, life and death.  When I was still a pastor of a local church I often used to stand in front of the communion table in the sacramental area and marvel at all of the stages of life that are marked in that space.  

I would celebrate life and baptise the children of my members there, I would confirm the faith of young people who had discovered Christ since their baptism, I married many of those young people in that same space, and I even had occasion to bury one or two who had passed away at far too young an age.

However, the gravity of that sacred space was seldom recognised.  I certainly overlooked it frequently, and I think the members of our congregation (much less the members of our city) hardly ever saw its significance!

In Africa there is a wonderful saying  &#039;umuntu ngumuntu ngamantu&#039; [roughly translated it says &#039;a person becomes more fully human through other people&#039;, or &#039;I am who I am because of who you are&#039;].  I have written about the African philosophy of ubuntu extensively (see this link for an introductory article http://www.dionforster.com/blog/2009/7/17/peace-and-belonging.html ).  I think there is a critical link between relationships and true identity.  We can only become more fully human when we live our lives with others.

In this light I have found the following quotes encouraging and challenging:

- &#039;My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together.&#039; - Desmond Tutu
- &#039;The holy task is not about becoming “spiritual” nearly as much as becoming human.&#039; - Richard Rohr

I agree that congregations are often bad at creating community - a lot of contemporary Christianity tends to present Jesus as a combination of my personal therapist and a stock broker...  This is a common thread in just about every country I have visited in the world!  Christians tend to seek entertainment rather than truth, we want comfort rather than companionship.  

However, what is certain is that we need some form of community to tie our lives to the lives of others.  Such &#039;intersubjective&#039; interactions make us more fully human, and in so doing help us to become more like the archetypical person, Jesus.

I suppose that like you I am more committed to helping people connect meaningfully than I am about getting people to join churches. But, I am still committed to a local church.

Your insights are challenging as always!

Dion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ron,</p>
<p>This is a challenging question indeed!  </p>
<p>I think that part of what has made the Church such a significant place of community is the reality of life&#8217;s diversity.  Joy, sorrow, life and death.  When I was still a pastor of a local church I often used to stand in front of the communion table in the sacramental area and marvel at all of the stages of life that are marked in that space.  </p>
<p>I would celebrate life and baptise the children of my members there, I would confirm the faith of young people who had discovered Christ since their baptism, I married many of those young people in that same space, and I even had occasion to bury one or two who had passed away at far too young an age.</p>
<p>However, the gravity of that sacred space was seldom recognised.  I certainly overlooked it frequently, and I think the members of our congregation (much less the members of our city) hardly ever saw its significance!</p>
<p>In Africa there is a wonderful saying  &#8216;umuntu ngumuntu ngamantu&#8217; [roughly translated it says 'a person becomes more fully human through other people', or 'I am who I am because of who you are'].  I have written about the African philosophy of ubuntu extensively (see this link for an introductory article <a href="http://www.dionforster.com/blog/2009/7/17/peace-and-belonging.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dionforster.com/blog/2009/7/17/peace-and-belonging.html</a> ).  I think there is a critical link between relationships and true identity.  We can only become more fully human when we live our lives with others.</p>
<p>In this light I have found the following quotes encouraging and challenging:</p>
<p>- &#8216;My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together.&#8217; &#8211; Desmond Tutu<br />
- &#8216;The holy task is not about becoming “spiritual” nearly as much as becoming human.&#8217; &#8211; Richard Rohr</p>
<p>I agree that congregations are often bad at creating community &#8211; a lot of contemporary Christianity tends to present Jesus as a combination of my personal therapist and a stock broker&#8230;  This is a common thread in just about every country I have visited in the world!  Christians tend to seek entertainment rather than truth, we want comfort rather than companionship.  </p>
<p>However, what is certain is that we need some form of community to tie our lives to the lives of others.  Such &#8216;intersubjective&#8217; interactions make us more fully human, and in so doing help us to become more like the archetypical person, Jesus.</p>
<p>I suppose that like you I am more committed to helping people connect meaningfully than I am about getting people to join churches. But, I am still committed to a local church.</p>
<p>Your insights are challenging as always!</p>
<p>Dion</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.velocityculture.com/uncategorized/in-the-in-between/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.velocityculture.com/?p=752#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Ron,  I&#039;ve taken your recommendation to read &quot;The answer to How? is Yes&quot;, so it occurs to me that even while you raise excellent &quot;how&quot; questions, I wonder if there aren&#039;t deeper &quot;why&quot; questions.  Anyways, that&#039;s slightly tongue in cheek.  I really appreciate your thoughts here and believe, too, that the primary task of the church is transformation; &#039;belonging&#039; is likely a step along the journey towards life change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,  I&#8217;ve taken your recommendation to read &#8220;The answer to How? is Yes&#8221;, so it occurs to me that even while you raise excellent &#8220;how&#8221; questions, I wonder if there aren&#8217;t deeper &#8220;why&#8221; questions.  Anyways, that&#8217;s slightly tongue in cheek.  I really appreciate your thoughts here and believe, too, that the primary task of the church is transformation; &#8216;belonging&#8217; is likely a step along the journey towards life change.</p>
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